This is a lightly-edited version of the of the Second Site chat session held 5 Feb 2005 (#1).
| John_C | By my clock, it's 2PM, so let's get started. |
|---|---|
| John_C | Hello, everyone, and welcome to the 2nd Second Site chat. The topic areas for this chat session are determined by the attendees. Almost anything related to Second Site is fair game. A couple suggestions... There was a new major release (v1.8) since the last chat, and of course, there was a 'maintenance' release (v1.8.6) this week. Any questions about those releases are welcome. We can also discuss potential new features. Keep in mind, though, that I usually do not promise when new features will be available so please don't infer from our discussion that a feature is imminent. If you are responding to a question or comment by a specific person, you may want to add that person's handle as a prefix. That's enough from me... Who wants to start us off? |
| rj45 | what is in the new release? |
| John_C | The latest release (1.6.8) is almost all bug fixes. |
| hank2 | Recently I've been getting message :variable Flag2 is not found".I don't pay any attention to it but what does it mean? |
| John_C | Hank2: It means that one of the SS properties is referring to a flag that no longer exists. |
| John_C | Hank2: are you using 1.8.6 yet? |
| hank2 | No - what is SS? |
| John_C | Hank2: SS is Second Site. I assumed you were getting that message from Second Site. |
| John_C | rj45: what release are you using? |
| hank2 | But I don't use 2nd site. |
| John_C | Hank2: This chat is for Second Site. I might entertain some TMG or TMG Utility questions a little later if there is time. |
| rj45 | 1.8.6 |
| John_C | rj45: Are you familiar with the features added in 1.8? |
| hank2 | Oh! I didn't realize this was only 2nd site. Guess I'll have to stay up late. Tell me about second site. |
| rj45 | not really, John |
| John_C | hank2: The 11PM (EST) chat tonight is also on Second Site, so don't stay up late unless you are interested in that. |
| John_C | rj45: The three main new features in 1.8 were Place Index, Timeline Charts, and Custom Pages |
| John_C | The Place Index is an index, by place, that shows what people had events at the indexed locations |
| John_C | As usual, there are links back and forth from the place index to the people listed in the index |
| KathrynBassett | Hi all! John, does 1.6 Build 6 fix the place index thing so that it will make .shtml suffixes? |
| TonyC | hank2: Second Site is a fantastic bolt-on for TMG written by John_C which accesses the TMG data directly and produces websites with no trouble at all. |
| John_C | Kathryn: Yes. |
| KathrynBassett | Great! Thanks! |
| John_C | Timeline charts are graphical displays that put people's lifespan in historical context. It's hard to explain them... I'll provide a link to an example |
| KathrynBassett | This afternoon, I'll download and redo my site. At tonight's chat I'll report back. |
| TonyC | hank2: A large proportion of the website is user definable and once set up doesn't need changing. |
| John_C | Timeline chart example: http://www.johncardinal.com/ss/examples/timeline/index.htm |
| barbarag | I've been doing Timelines by hand for a long time -- sure will be nice to have them done for me. Thanks John |
| John_C | Custom Pages allow the addition of arbitrary content determined by the user. The pages are automatically created to match the look and feel of the site as determined by the Theme. |
| John_C | BarbaraG: Take a look at the example and let me know what you think. |
| hank2 | John_C repeat - is the Feb 12 2:00 chat for TMG? |
| John_C | Hank2: Don't know. I was hoping someone else would answer. |
| TerryR | no - thats on Genstar - TMG chat is 26th |
| John_C | I hope we have some European users... this time slot was aimed at them! |
| rj45 | see http://www.whollygenes.com/calendar.htm for the chat schedule |
| TerryR | See the calander on the TMG forum for details |
| barbarag | Looks good. Very close to a program I found a couple years ago, but of course I had to type all my info. |
| hank2 | John_C Well I'll try Feb 12. In the meantime I guess I should find out about second site. |
| KathrynBassett | from most recent TMG newsletter: The next online chat with Wholly Genes will be Saturday, 26 February 2005, at 2pm EST and again at 11pm Eastern Time. Don't miss this opportunity to "talk" online with Wholly Genes representatives, as well as with other TMG users around the world. |
| TonyC | Hi John_C - I'm in Scotland. I took the transcript of the last one and wished I could have been there. |
| John_C | BarbaraG: You can add TMGs timelines to the chart, and you can also add events by designating a "timeline person", tho that isn't shgown in the example |
| John_C | TonyC: Glad you could be here. |
| rj45 | The Feb 12th chat is about GedStar PRO (a companion program for Palm users). |
| barbarag | Hank2, SS is fantastic for family members when you put the "web site" on a CD. |
| JBS | I find the "make site" command greyed out on the latest SS release. Am I doing something wrong? |
| barbarag | They tend to read more of you work and fill in missing info better then giving them a journal report. |
| John_C | JBS: The Make Site command is available when there is an SDF file open and when the [Set Database] button has been used to pick the dataset. |
| John_C | JBS: Is there an SDF file open? Did you set the TMG project/dataset? |
| John_C | Looks like JBS may be off testing! <g> |
| TonyC | John_C: could I ask about a wee problem I've had concerning the new (to TMG) Citation memo? I'm not getting an output in SS. Should I be? |
| John_C | TonyC: SS is supposed to support the [CM] variable. |
| John_C | TonyC: It will only produce output in the citation sentence (on the person page), not on the source page. |
| barbarag | On the timelines, is the historical info being pulled from a Time Line? |
| John_C | barbarag: Yes, TMG timelines are supported. SS also supports another way of doing it using "timeline people" |
| * TonyC | That's where I would have expected it, but [CD] works and so does [CRef] but nothing from [CM]! |
| John_C | TonyC: I'll do a test after the chat. Send me a private e-mail so I can respond to you that way. |
| TonyC | John_C: cheers John. |
| barbarag | Guess I'll have to take time from checking out dive sites to dive during the TMG cruise |
| JBS | Back to my earlier question about the greyed out "make site" command. It was the set database option that I had overlooked. Thanks |
| John_C | JBS: Glad we found it. |
| barbarag | to check out the time lines |
| John_C | BarbaraG: I promise I will spend *some* time talking about SS on the cruise. But I'll be sunning myself most of the time! <g> |
| DMB | Cruise?? What cruise?? |
| John_C | Is anyone here NOT subscribed to the Second Site Newsletter? |
| JaniceL | I'm not |
| barbarag | Check out the Forum [Cruise Forum] |
| John_C | DMB: Wholly Genes is planning a Genealogy Conference on a cruise ship in November. |
| barbarag | Look for Cruise Information near the end of the page |
| DMB | Thanks - I'll look after this chat |
| John_C | JaniceL: It's worth subscribing if you want to stay up to date on SS. Infrequent messages--usually, only when there is a new release. |
| JaniceL | okay, sounds good, I'll subscribe - - how? |
| John_C | JaniceL: See http://www.johncardinal.com/ss/newsletters.htm |
| John_C | Is anyone using Custom Pages on their site yet? |
| John_C | OK, any TMG or TMG Utility questions out there? Looks like there is time for those... |
| TonyC | Sorry, John, but had been hand-writing my 'extra' pages before the function was available. Not got round to looking into how you do it yet. |
| KathrynBassett | Since nobody is saying anything, I'll say that I get lucky with the two times that have been chosen for the chats. I'm Pacific time zone, so the times end up being 11am and 8pm - I can come to both. |
| John_C | TonyC: It's pretty easy. You type the content using the Text Editor in SS, and assign a page name. |
| John_C | Kathryn: That means you have to think of new things to ask in the later version!!! |
| TonyC | How does it cope with changes of style through the page? |
| KathrynBassett | no questions today except for the .shtml one you already answered. Just listening to learn. |
| John_C | TonyC: That's up to you. You enter HTML, so you can use styles or not. |
| DMB | Actually, it means that KathrynBassett and I can test things after this chat, and ask any resulting questions during the new chat |
| John_C | TonyC: The Text Editor has a "Paste as HTML" command so you can use another program to create the content and then paste from there. |
| John_C | DMB: That qualifies! |
| KathrynBassett | LOL - and who might DMB be? |
| TonyC | John_C: No problem then! Seems like it should be great - will investigate further. |
| TerryR | John, regarding the discussion on SS-L about subjects being added to e-mail links - have you considered the idea of link per person that includes that person's info in the subject? |
| JBS | As the questions seem slow I just thought I would mention that I have received many compliments on my web site since using SS. It is a wonderful program and thanks, John, for all your hard work creating it. |
| TonyC | My 'hand' pages are really only to 'set the scene' and for creating my own 'exhibit' pages (I have my reasons <g>) |
| John_C | JBS: You're welcome. Glad to hear you've had a positive response. |
| John_C | Terry: I am pretty sure I will add an option for a "per person" email to the compiler link. |
| TonyC | John_C/JBS: I'll concur with that - lots of very good feedback on the layout. |
| barbarag | Tony C: is there a link from the WG Forum to your site? |
| old_hank | That's good! |
| TerryR | Have you seen my post on that on SS-L? It's not come back to me yet. |
| John_C | TonyC: If you are happy with your hand-made pages there is no great need to change. On the other hand, if you add little pages here and there, the Custom Page facility is pretty convenient. |
| TonyC | barbarag: yes, there is. Just the same handle (TonyC). |
| barbarag | Thanks. will check it out |
| John_C | Terry: No, I don't think so. |
| JaniceL | would someone who has a Second Site web page direct me to it so I can see how it looks? |
| TonyC | John_C: will still investigate as it may be quicker than setting up from scratch for 'small' entries. |
| John_C | JaniceL: You can see some examples via this page: http://www.johncardinal.com/ss/examples.htm |
| JaniceL | thanks |
| John_C | And here: http://www.whollygenes.com/forums201/index.php?showforum=50 |
| John_C | On the TMG Forum, there are sites made with other tools, too, so you can compare. |
| TonyC | janiceL: as per mine to barbarag - try www.tony-collins.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/family/index.htm or through the WG forum |
| barbarag | oops, I'm back |
| John_C | I hesitate to do this, but what features do people want to see added? |
| John_C | No need to ask for childless spouses on the Descendancy charts... <g> |
| JaniceL | thanks Tony |
| KathrynBassett | I have one, but have to compose the question to make sense - brb |
| JBS | I am not looking for any more features - yet. Can't keep up with all you have introduced more recently! |
| TonyC | John_C: on the subject of TMGUtil - I've used several of the functions for cleaning up my data. The one I find causes me most problems is the Find and Replace - but it never has the fields I need <vbg> |
| TerryR | When (if) you add the e-mail link per person, allow a way to control it's context - that is "surround" it with other text and HTML |
| John_C | JBS: I am glad I am keeping you busy! Usually, it's the other way around. |
| John_C | TonyC: It's pretty easy for me to add fields to the Find and Replace function. Which do you need? |
| John_C | TerryR: Can you give an example? |
| TerryR | John, I want to put it in a box (table) with a note. |
| TonyC | John_C: Cheers John, you just left yourself wide open <vbg>. It's usually when you need then you find there not there. Could I drop a note to the SS-L on that? or is it OT? |
| John_C | TerryR: Are you using an XML Format? |
| TerryR | Something like what you see here: http://reigelridge.com/family/p638.htm |
| TerryR | Yes. |
| John_C | TonyC: I think TMG-L is a better place for that. If other people second your request, it's more likely to get done. |
| TonyC | Cheers again. |
| John_C | TerryR: I suspect you could do what you want that way easier than me putting controls in the UI. We'll see as it get's designed. |
| TerryR | I just wanted to make sure there was a way to make the per-person link work in the XML - that's fine. |
| JaniceL | I like having these chats at 2pm. What kind of attendance do the late ones usually get? |
| KathrynBassett | I use grid format. For census, I have the usual breaks using || for memo1, memo2 etc for the different people. The result is this using SS: http://bassett.net/secondsite/kathryn-p/p1.shtml#i7 and that looks kinda funky to someone who doesn't know what the || marks are for. Is there a way to have grid format and use sentences? What I'd *really* like is to choose which tags to use sentences for and which to use the current format because I only have a few tags that I use sentences for (to many to fix up). |
| John_C | JaniceL: The last SS chat at 11PM had more people by far. |
| John_C | KathyrnB: You can use Sentences in the Grid formats. |
| John_C | See "Style>Detail Format" and choose "Use Sentence" |
| KathrynBassett | What about using sentences selectively, is that within the realm of possibility? |
| John_C | KathrynB: Hmm... you want to mix and match? |
| TerryR | Kathryn - have you thought about a custom language to get the effect you want? |
| John_C | TerryR: I was about to suggest that. |
| John_C | <g> |
| JaniceL | what is a custom language? |
| KathrynBassett | Yeah, maybe on the page where you choose what tags to show, there could also be a checkbox as to whether to use sentence or (what's the alternative actually called?) non-sentence. |
| John_C | JaniceL: TMG has a "language" feature that allows the user to switch from English sentences, say, to German. |
| KathrynBassett | I've never delved into custom languages - how would I set it up for this? |
| TerryR | You create a custom language in TMG, then create special sentences for the tags to output as you want in SS |
| John_C | JaniceL: Some people use it to have "narrative" sentences and "terse" sentences |
| JaniceL | I see, thank you |
| TerryR | There's a little on that idea on my website. |
| John_C | (even though the language doesn't change, the sentence definitions do) |
| John_C | KathrynB: Essentially, you'd define "terse" sentences for the tags where you don't want the verbiage. The other tags would default to English. |
| TerryR | The pages you can see like http://reigelridge.com/family/p638.htm uses a custom language with "very terse" sentences. <g> |
| John_C | I suggest you read TerryR's site to help you get started. |
| John_C | TerryR: Got the link to the sentences article on your site? |
| TerryR | I'll get it |
| KathrynBassett | How would that differ from just going through and setting the birth tag to just be [M]? |
| John_C | KathrynB: It allows you to use a full sentence in TMG reports and short sentences there or in SS. |
| TerryR | Try http:tmg.reigelridge.com/SecondSite-language.htm [note: bad URL; see later message] |
| John_C | Gotta add some slashes to that URL... |
| TerryR | I use regular English for my family CDs so it's regular narrative, but terse sentences in a custom language for my public website. |
| KathrynBassett | Terry - reigleridge.com isn't coming up - did you put a typo? |
| KathrynBassett | Can't get it to load in either IE or FF |
| TerryR | sorry -- http://reigelridge.com/SecondSite-language.htm |
| JaniceL | The link doesn't work for me |
| TerryR | Can't spell my own name. |
| KathrynBassett | no, I can't even get the base reigleridge.com to load, let alone sub pages |
| JaniceL | Get page not found message |
| TerryR | It's spelled wrong - see latest above |
| John_C | Is it http://tmg.reigelridge.com/Language.htm |
| JaniceL | I clicked on that link |
| TerryR | thanks |
| TerryR | One last try on the SS page: http://tmg.reigelridge.com/SecondSite-language.htm |
| * barbarag | <g> Is John trying to tell us it's time to quit |
| JaniceL | Well, actually, it is almost time to quit, isn't it. |
| John_Again | I got bounced and can't come back as John_C yet. |
| John_Again | But I am here! |
| JaniceL | Terry, I wasn't able to click on that at all, just no reaction |
| barbarag | I get it with no problem |
| TerryR | The last one above, Janice? It works for me. |
| John_Again | We are getting near the end. I'll be back online at 11PM (EST). You can always ask questions on SecondSite-L, a RootsWeb mailing list for SS users. I watch that list closely. Thanks for coming! |
| TerryR | Thanks, John. |
| barbarag | TerryR: good to see someone who types as bad as I do in chats |
| JaniceL | yes, thanks |
| * TerryR | <laughs> |
| JaniceL | Thank you John, and all. |
| barbarag | Thanks John, Hope to see you again tonight |
| * old_hank | <smile> Thanks John |
| John_C | You're welcome. |
| TonyC | n signing off, may I thank John for hosting tonight - I've really enjoyed my first foray into a chatroom. May I also thank John (again) and his team for the excellent programs he produces and for the backup we all get. |
| John_C | TonyC: Don't forget to e-mail me about the CM prob |
| TonyC | will do |
| KathrynBassett | D - I'm leaving here, and finishing our conversation in the private chat. |
| DMB | And I will do the same - "talk" with you all later |
| TerryR | Kathryn - did you find what you wanted on custom languages? |