SS Chat #3

This is a lightly-edited version of the of the Second Site chat session held 5 Feb 2005 (#2).

John_C	Let's get started... a few words from me first Hello, everyone, and welcome to the 3rd Second Site chat. The topic areas for this chat session are determined by the attendees. Almost anything related to Second Site is fair game. A couple suggestions... There was a new major release (v1.8) since the last chat, and of course, there was a 'maintenance' release (v1.8.6) this week. Any questions about those releases are welcome. We can also discuss potential new features. Keep in mind, though, that I usually do not promise when new features will be available so please don't infer from our discussion that a feature is imminent. If you are responding to a question or comment by a specific person, you may want to add that person's handle as a prefix. Lastly, I will post a transcript of tonight's chat on my web site. See http://www.johncardinal.com/ss/chats. Previous chats are there now.
John_C	Who wants to start us off?
DarrellM	John: am I right in thinking there is no way, in the narrative format, to control the position of the links to chart pages?
glamberson	I would like to talk about how everyone is using the new place index and memos allowed in tmg 6
John_C	DarrellM: I think chart links can be at the top of the narrative, or the bottom, can't they?
DarrellM	glamberson: my next site update will have many place information pages with state maps and the town highlighted.
John_C	Pages>Lists>Person Entry Chart List
DarrellM	John_C: I can't figure out how to put them at the bottom only.
glamberson	I have really begun to see how I can use the place index to add links and other place information for my major locations
DarrellM	John_C: I'm concerned I wiped something out in my custom Theme.
glamberson	but I don't know how to format the memos yet so that the hyperlinks work.. I assuyme there's a way to do it...
John_C	glamberson: you want to put links in memos?
John_C	darrellm: it would be hard for a Theme to break the chart list placement (the ones in the person entries, that is)
glamberson	john:yes
DarrellM	John_C: so where is the property? I have looked, honest!
John_C	glamberson: links to other people, or ?
glamberson	john:To be specific, I want to put links in my place memos so that they work in SS and are not just text..
KathrynBassett	glamberson - I think I can answer you
John_C	darrell: pages > lists > person entry chart list
glamberson	johnc:I would like to use hyperlinks to, for example, USGENWEB websites for certain US Counties
John_C	glamberson: OH.
DarrellM	John_C: Oh, THERE. Thanks ... grumble grumble mutter mutter
glamberson	I think this will be a very good way for me to add my suggested links for specific localities
John_C	glamberson: You would have to put HTML in the Place Comment (via TMG's MPL) or alternatively attach a text exhibit to the place that includes a link
KathrynBassett	glamberson - do you want something like this? http://bassett.net/secondsite/kathryn-p/p2.shtml#i96
glamberson	kathrynb:yes, exactly.. A hyperlink to appropriate sites , germane to the location
DarrellM	Everyone: BTW, I am very close to having a full search page.
KathrynBassett	scroll down to immigration tag and see that I have links to some images
John_C	DarrellM: Cheer up. I think I counted more than 400 options if you count stylesheet properties!
KathrynBassett	ok, brb with the code I have as a text macro in TMG
DarrellM	Thanks to KSearch and the instructions on 2ndSt-L from Glen Crofford.
John_C	glamberson: for links to other pages about a place, I'd put the link in the Place Comment
John_C	Kathryn: Did v1.8.6 fix the shtml prob?
KathrynBassett	I have the next line as a text macro
KathrynBassett	[HTML:]<A HREF="" target="_new">(scanned image)</a>[:HTML]
glamberson	kathrynb:I like what you've done with the links there, Kathryn..
glamberson	Kathryn:I knew there was some simple way to do it.. Thanks heaps
KathrynBassett	then, I put the url in between the two "" before the word target, and the part that says (scanned image) I replace with whatever the text is that I want to describe
John_C	Does anyone have any questions about other SS v1.8 features (Timeline charts, custom pages, etc.)
glamberson	Johnc:I'm sorry. I remain the King of Imprecise Terminology.. I meant to say that I would like to place links to other websites germane to my locations by placing the links in my place comments fields
KathrynBassett	JohnC - yes. I sent something to the SS list but haven't gotten any messages back. I've got a feeling I got unsubbed, as I got unsubbed from a googlegroup list too.
glamberson	(continued) within TMG 6
John_C	Kathryn: I think SS-L and TMG-L are down due to RootsWeb issues
DarrellM	Kathryn: There is an undefined server(s) problem at RootsWeb.
KathrynBassett	ah, that explains it
KathrynBassett	thanks, saved me from going to find my url for the rootsweb issues
John_C	glamberson: Kathryn's coding will work in the Place Comment. Turn on the Place Index, and the Place Information Page in SS, and you should see the links.
glamberson	Johnc: I would love to hear how other people are using these features. I have not yet even considered them.. The place comments and Index are huge to me alone.
DarrellM	All: http://helpdesk.rootsweb.com should be bookmarked by all RW list users.
John_C	glamberson: Me, too!
glamberson	Johnc and Kathryn: WONDERFUL! Thank you.
John_C	glamberson: once you experiment a bit, ask more questions on SecondSite-L (once it's back up)
DarrellM	John_C: I would love to try the custom pages feature.
John_C	DarrellM: What's stopping you, besides time? <g>
DarrellM	John_C: However, I get stuck at integrating them into my Theme. Someday.
marklang	come to think of it, I think there was trouble before today. Itried unsubbing from TMG-D about 5 times before I had to get in touch with admin
marklang	I think there were issues before now
glamberson	Johnc:One thing I would like is to have the titles of the index pages append to the title of my site as name pages do.
John_C	DarrellM: Should be easy. The template is simple. You only have to decide how to add links for them, and you can use User Links for that.
glamberson	Johnc:For example, my name page 3 title is "Greg Lamberson's Genealogy Website Name Page 3"
DarrellM	John_C: There! I like the chart links at the bottom MUCH better.
KathrynBassett	John, I'll paste here my message that hasn't yet been delivered, because it also asks a question.
KathrynBassett	As a result of an answer during the chat (using sentences with grid format), I've given it a try. I don't think I'm going to have to use the custom language since it looks like it mostly does what I want. The sentences I was worried about aren't proving to be a problem. However - what's with this?http://bassett.net/secondsite/kathryn-p/p2.shtml#i52 Note the 30 May 1816 deed. Why does it says [Role:Grantor] sold land to [Role:Grantee] Instead of the peoples names? There is no grantee linked up, but that shouldn't make a difference. The land is from his father's estate http://bassett.net/secondsite/kathryn-p/p3.shtml#i104 and you'll see the problem there too where it says:As part of the estate of [Role:EstateOf], [Role:Grantor] sold land to [Role:Grantee] on 30 May 1816 at Frederick Co., Virginia,: James, Sarah, Stephen and Thomas Kile sell lands on the drains ... Etc.So, why don't these things show the names instead of the roles?Oh, maybe I should include my sentences too, just in case.EstateOf: As part of the estate of [Role:EstateOf], [Role:Grantor] sold land <to [Role:Grantee]> <[D]> <[L]:> <[M]>Grantor: [Role:Grantor] sold land <to [Role:Grantee]> <[D]> <[L]:> <[M]>Grantee: [Role:Grantee] bought land <from [Role:Grantor]><[D]> <[L]:> <[M]>
John_C	glamberson: Which index pages?
DarrellM	John_C: OK, after I get the Search finished.
glamberson	johnc:whereas my place index page 6 is merely called "Place Index 6"
John_C	Kathryn: Literally, [Role:Grantor]? Should be [R:Grantor]
KathrynBassett	oh, hmm, well, I guess I'll go change them and redo and see what happens
John_C	glamberson: Oh, Place Index pages. I'll look into it.
glamberson	TYVM
DarrellM	John_C: What do you think would happen if I pasted the entire "body" of a page, including scripts, into a custom page's contents?
John_C	DarrellM: Custom pages want content of the body tag. Some tags that belong in the head would work, but others might not.
John_C	DarrellM: Perhaps I'll add a way to affect the HEAD section
John_C	Is anyone here NOT subscribed to the Second Site Newsletter? It's worth subscribing if you want to stay up to date on SS. I won't fill up your mailbox; messages are usually sent only when there is a new release of SS. See http://www.johncardinal.com/ss/newsletters.htm
DarrellM	John_C: The KSearch free search feature uses frames and affects the HEAD section.
John_C	DarrellM: Frames would be a bear.
John_C	DarrellM: Use a simpler search facility. A search box shouldn't drive the design of the site.
marklang	Darrell, try and stear clear of using frames IMHO
DarrellM	John_C: It's simple enough; all the code fits on one screen with lots of white space. It's integrating it into a Theme that's the bear.
John_C	DarrellM: If it uses frames, it isn't simple.
DarrellM	John_C: OK, I'm all ears. Any simple, free, search code out there?
John_C	DarrellM: I am sure there are, I just haven't looked. I am planning on it.
KathrynBassett	Yeah, that worked. I'm uploading the new pages now.
John_C	KathrynB: Glad to hear that.
DarrellM	John_C: Is that a sneak preview of a new feature?
marklang	Darrell, server side or client side?
DarrellM	Mark: Client side. That's a key point for me.
John_C	DarrellM: If I find something I like, I will try to add it as a feature of SS. As usual, no promises.
John_C	Mark: If I add something to SS, it will be client-side.
DarrellM	John_C: Understood. It is not my biggest priority.
marklang	Darrell, the trouble with client side is keeping the dictionary uptodate!
glamberson	client side,, that sounds .. problematic..
John_C	marklang: it will be a little easier if SS makes the dictionary when it makes the site.
DarrellM	Mark: Dictionary?
John_C	glamberson: if it isn't client-side, it will have server-side dependencies (none now) and won't work on SS CDs.
marklang	Darrell, when you build a site, a dictionary holds all key words so the search facility can give the page links
DarrellM	All: KSearch rebuilds the entire search as a whole.
glamberson	I was thinking more along the lines of Googles custom search by site offerings...
KathrynBassett	what about the google search? can that be incorporated somehow?
John_C	KathrynB: Yes, it can. I forget how, but I think instructions are on Google somewhere.
DarrellM	Kathryn: I want complete control of the scope of the search.
glamberson	johnc: No i wouldn't advocate that, either..
Kevin_Sholder	I have Google on my pages, but do not like the results so far and have not dug into it deeper to see what the problem might be.
John_C	Kevin: What don't you like?
DarrellM	I'm against incorporating Google within 2ndSt. Just bias.
Kevin_Sholder	It does not find words on my site.
glamberson	when it comes to searching, there's no pleasing everyone.. Personally, I don't use any on my site.. Indexing only.
Kevin_Sholder	And I'm not sure why.
marklang	I did a search engine for a Uni course about 5 years back, just can't remember the name now, i'd have to look it up and get back to you
DarrellM	glamberson: The indexes are very good, but a search is somewhat different.
glamberson	th best search I've seen it the one many KYGENWEB websites use on their sites.. can't think of the name tho
John_C	Anyone having any trouble with SS?
DarrellM	I think I'm going to proceed with KSearch. If nothing else, I'll be the guinea pig.
marklang	JohnC - Ah that's it - SWISH
DarrellM	Mark: Can you give a link to an example?
marklang	I'll see if I can find one
DarrellM	John_C: Only the 400 properties
glamberson	oh, the name of the search I like is pico search :
glamberson	picosearch.com
Kevin_Sholder	John: Just ran a search on my pages and only one hit came back for my grandfather, and there should be a least one or two sources, as well as his individual page.
marklang	Darrell - http://swish-e.org/
John_C	Kevin: are you sure the words appear close enough on the missed pages?
Kevin_Sholder	What do you mean by close enough?
John_C	if you search for "john smith", the words "john" and "smith" have to be close to each other or Google gives it a low score.
John_C	In the SS name index, for example, the surname isn't always close to the givenname
Kevin_Sholder	OK, I'll try his first and middle name and see what that returns.
John_C	Also, don't search for a quoted string
glamberson	I guess I'm of the Neanderthal Camp, believing if people can't use an index, they're hopeless anyway.
marklang	I'm pretty sure even swish could accommodate for word proximity
John_C	glamberson: I think the indexes handle a lot of case, but a site search is handy
DarrellM	glamberson: There are lots of things (e.g. memo text) that 2ndSt doesn't index.
glamberson	certainly true
glamberson	MY needs aren't that complex yet, or at least I don't think they are
glamberson	very true
John_C	marklang: the search engines can handle it, but not if the user specifies an exact phrase
marklang	and beside, nothing beats a good trawl thru a site manually!
Kevin_Sholder	John: I tried "Frederick Ulmer" and it returned "0" or "zero" results.
glamberson	I say trawling is half the fun!
wayneb	Glamberson: You're not alone. I'm telling my CD users to use the index and if the want a search to use a desktp search such as Copernic
John_C	We haven't heard from everyone... I want to make sure they aren't waiting for a quiet moment. There may not be one!
barbarag	I'm just lurking
John_C	barbarag: ... and you were here earlier so you're all chatted out?
Carol_Lea	I came to see what other people were doing
TerryR	Likewise
DMB	I'm learning a lot by listening to you
DarrellM	We seem to be monopolizing the chat with search issues.
Kevin_Sholder	glamberson: I count on search engines to bring people to my site.
John_C	I've got another question for everyone... Did everyone notice the new Save As command? You can use it to make a copy of the curent SDF file and folders if you want to make a site that is very similar to another one. It was a little lost among the place index, timeline charts, etc., in v1.8
marklang	Ah, monopolising, lets all go on the Apprentice - the SS Edition <g>
DarrellM	John_C: I use "Save As" constantly. It is a godsend.
TerryR	I've not used it yet but have wanted it in the past.
wayneb	Johnc: seen it and used it. thanks
glamberson	Yes, for people making multiple sites, I would think it invaluable
John_C	DarrellM: But Darrell, you only use it because you are trying to break it! <g>
RobynD	lol
glamberson	lol
DarrellM	John_C: Mai non, mon ami! Although I might be accused of that.
wayneb	johnc: isn't that what you pay us for? <g>
marklang	Darrell, looks like someone else is telling tales out of school
DarrellM	John_C: But I find it practically useful, all the time.
John_C	wayneb: the check's in the mail.
Kevin_Sholder	Don't we pay john?? LOL
marklang	who's getting paid!
glamberson	lol
DarrellM	BUSTED!
John_C	THe beta testers get paid, if you consider a slap on the back as "pay" <g>
marklang	again?
DarrellM	Translation: "Busted", American slang, "caught in the act".
marklang	you'll have to remove the dagger first
John_C	I am also interested in timeline chart examples... anyone got a good one?
DarrellM	John_C: I think I am adequately compensated....
marklang	you and me both
Kevin_Sholder	I'd love to see a timeline chart and make some of my own, they sound cool.
John_C	I've got a rudimentary example: http://www.johncardinal.com/ss/examples/timeline/index.htm
glamberson	Timelines scare me.. I stay away from them.. Didn't like them in TMG4, and I fall into Archie Bunker mode at the thought of them, sorry
DarrellM	Kevin: Best thing is to try one. Start simple.
John_C	glamberson: check out the chart just for the heck of it.
rj45	they scare you??
DarrellM	glamberson: A 2ndSt timeline and a TMG timeline are different beasts.
glamberson	Well, I'm easily frightened..
John_C	I am very interested to see one that graphically shows why someone reached a particular conclusion when faced with a genalogical puzzle.
Kevin_Sholder	Yes, with all my time being spent on exhibits right now...it will be at some point.
DarrellM	Closely related; same genus, different species.
glamberson	John: That really is very interesting.. A new way to present data. I will have to consider it.
barbarag	so much to do -- not enouth hours in the day
glamberson	You're piling on the new stuff too fast for my feeble brain to keep up!
John_C	barbarag: I think we need to lobby the programmer for more hours in a day. just a few more is all I ask!
glamberson	Darrell:You expose my ignorance. The mere separation is a relief to me, and I was totally unuawre that they were not the same in any way.
marklang	glamberson - good stirs the sawdust as they say
John_C	My questions aren't stirring the pot that much... but I'll keep at it.
marklang	barbara - no, then John will find time to do more <G>
John_C	Who's going on the cruise?
DarrellM	John_C: Would love to cruise, but not this year.
ezzie	I am
wayneb	John_C - I am
John_C	I am
marklang	Too expensive for me, especially from Australia
glamberson	The Love Boat Cruise?
marklang	Duh, you're a guest speaker
John_C	Mark: Sorry to hear that. I am pining to go to Australia...
DarrellM	Now, if the cruise were to the Great Barrier Reef ...
glamberson	.. ok maybe not
barbarag	I'll be there
DMB	Depends on fire season. A busy fire season equals overtime, and the money for such fun.
marklang	Darrell, I'd be there in a shot, lovely place to go snorkling
marklang	all the pretty fishies
DarrellM	DMB: I'm not sure which way to go on fire season. Where?
marklang	some with big teeth
KathrynBassett	sounds great to me but I had just signed up for an expensive Dreamweaver conference and can't afford two expensive things in the same year
barbarag	Maybe wew can talk Bob into an Great Barrier Reef dive trip and TMG study trip
John_C	They'd have to move the reef closer to the U.S.
rj45	that's for 2006
DarrellM	barbarag: Give me a year's heads up, and I'll show up!
barbarag	and the year after that?
marklang	Yeah bob was out here a year a bit ago. Seen him when he came to adelaide, spent the day together
DMB	DarrellM: Pacific Northwest, mostly. Actually, I'd go just about anywhere they send me.
John_C	We're 10 minutes from the official close of the chat. If there are any TMG Utility questions, or questions about TMG Utility and SS combined, have at it.
DarrellM	John_C: Are there any lingering issues with image maps?
marklang	Are these only meant to go an hour?
DarrellM	I'm not seeing any problems that I know of.
KathrynBassett	John, after we are officially done, I'd like to ask you something that has nothing to do with genealogy.
John_C	DarrellM: There is an issue related to moving the Exhibit Decsription into the Caption field; it can break the image map. If the image map is properly constructed, there should be no problem.
DarrellM	John_C: That's what prompted the question.
John_C	mark: yes, one hour is the official time. I'll stay a little longer, maybe even a lot longer if my eyes remain open
DarrellM	I'll be here for a while to ... chat ...
John_C	DarrellM: TMG Utility and SS will look in the description field first for the map, then in the caption
marklang	ah yes, the pumpkin thing again, forgot
John_C	kathryn: no prob
DMB	John_C: to heck with the eyes - it's the brain that needs to keep functioning!
marklang	one good strong cup of tea does the trick
glamberson	I'll ask again: How are you others using the Place Index?
DarrellM	DMB: You've got me by two hours, John by three. Caffeine!!
DarrellM	glamberson: I index town/city "and up".
John_C	\DarrellM: on the image map thing--too much to type in a chat. we can discuss it on TMG-L if you want.
barbarag	Tea? I thought we were all sipping on a fine wine
DarrellM	John_C: If there aren't any image map "gotchas" I'm fine.
John_C	DarrellM: There may be one.
wayneb	glamberson: I'm attaching photos of grave yards along with directions and history if I know it. Also attaching photos of some old residences
DarrellM	glamberson: I have Place Info for "many" towns.
KathrynBassett	I've been working on another website, and am having a problem that I'm sure is CSS related, but I'm baffled by what is wrong. I've made a site that explains it all (for another list), but most of the people who help there are done for the weekend. http://ourwebsite.org/storage/dcs/needhelp.htm
John_C	people should feel free to post URLs of their place indexes or any other pages people might want to see
DarrellM	John_C: I have been threatening to update my site for a week.
marklang	yes we know, all talk
DarrellM	John_C: I've been side-tracked by yet another conflicting source about 3gr-grandpa.
glamberson	Wayne: Nice. Since I focus my research on some key Counties, I plan to offer some basic historical information as well as location within the state, perhaps a map, and links to helpful research sites on the web in my place comments for some counties.
DarrellM	John_C: With any luck, when this chart is done I'll be uploading.
John_C	kathryn: I took a quick look. have you got an example of the page online somewhere that shows the exact problem?
glamberson	darrell:What kind of place information do you tend to include??
glamberson	OH also I include some information on how the location is important within the body of my reasearch, if applicable.
John_C	glamberson: one idea to consider is an exhibit image map for a place exhibit that is a map; clicking on a part of the map to open a page about that city/town/plot, whatever
DarrellM	glamberson: Some history, and a state map with the town highlighted. It's a work in progress, for sure.
KathrynBassett	wayneb - I have a client who has a goal of photographing all the tombstones available for her ancestors. Here's an example page of what I've done for her (not TMG or SS) http://babcockancestry.com/BuryPagesGNG/BurialsNH.shtml
KathrynBassett	John, the links are on the page
glamberson	Johnc::do you know ofany exampes ofsuch an exhibit image map?
John_C	glamberson: I know DIck Cleaveland uses exhibit image maps, and I think Darrell does, too. (He can speak for himself) I don't know of anyone using image maps for place exhibits... yet.
wayneb	ohn_c - I haven't yet but the idea intrigues me. Oh boy still jmore to do
DarrellM	I don't have any image maps for places; there is no feature like "static pages" for places.
John_C	Well, it's 12:00 here. Thanks to everyone for coming! I will stick around, but I didn't want to miss the chance to say thanks before some of you head off elsewhere.
John_C	wayneb: you're telling me...
KathrynBassett	John, more specifcally, the paragraph starting "Here are the sample pages" has the links to the actual pages.
glamberson	After abruptly dropping my research and webwite work for almost 3 months, I'll need sometime to see ow to se all of these new features best.
RobynD	Thanks for your time John C
rj45	thanks, John
ezzie	Thanks, John.
John_C	kathryn: OK, I see the problem now. I'll look at it tomorrow.
KathrynBassett	thanks
TerryR	Thans, John.
barbarag	Thanks, John and all those who joined the chat.
John_C	You're welcome, everyone.
KathrynBassett	do you by any chance have Dreamweaver?
ChuckW	Goodnight, all. Thanks, John.
John_C	kathryn: nope.
DarrellM	Thanks to all. I'm sticking around for a bit.
marklang	Kathryn - I do
BillR	any way to get a copy of the chat?
John_C	BillR: I will post a transcript on my site tomorrow. Today's earlier chat is there already.
KathrynBassett	Well, you should still be able to download the templates - they have .dwt extention, but you can change to .htm
John_C	See: http://www.johncardinal.com/ss/chats
John_C	Kathryn: I will try to find the HTML or CSS problem. You'll have to work back from there.
DMB	I've enjoyed listening to all of you. Thanks for the pointers and explanations. Especially you, John.
BillR	Thanks.
wayneb	Thanks John and good night y'all
KathrynBassett	I'm just thinking about the possiblity that if it's html vs css, then seeing the code in the template wrapper might be significant. So if you can't find anyplace else, try there.
John_C	OK
barbarag	Good night
glamberson	Thank you John, and everyone! Cya next time..
John_C	Looks like things are slowing down... I'll see you all on SecondSite-L and TMG-L, and of course, in the Caribbean in November!
KathrynBassett	Bye all
DarrellM	I think even Elvis is heading to the door....
marklang	well i've still got a good 7 hours up my sleeve
RobynD	bye all
marklang	night to everyone else, may be that article needs completion<g>
marklang	bye Robyn

John_C

Let's get started... a few words from me first

Hello, everyone, and welcome to the 3rd Second Site chat. The topic areas for this chat session are determined by the attendees. Almost anything related to Second Site is fair game. A couple suggestions...

There was a new major release (v1.8) since the last chat, and of course, there was a 'maintenance' release (v1.8.6) this week. Any questions about those releases are welcome.

We can also discuss potential new features. Keep in mind, though, that I usually do not promise when new features will be available so please don't infer from our discussion that a feature is imminent.

If you are responding to a question or comment by a specific person, you may want to add that person's handle as a prefix.

Lastly, I will post a transcript of tonight's chat on my web site. See http://www.johncardinal.com/ss/chats. Previous chats are there now.

John_C

Who wants to start us off?

DarrellM

John: am I right in thinking there is no way, in the narrative format, to control the position of the links to chart pages?

glamberson

I would like to talk about how everyone is using the new place index and memos allowed in tmg 6

John_C

DarrellM: I think chart links can be at the top of the narrative, or the bottom, can't they?

DarrellM

glamberson: my next site update will have many place information pages with state maps and the town highlighted.

John_C

Pages>Lists>Person Entry Chart List

DarrellM

John_C: I can't figure out how to put them at the bottom only.

glamberson

I have really begun to see how I can use the place index to add links and other place information for my major locations

DarrellM

John_C: I'm concerned I wiped something out in my custom Theme.

glamberson

but I don't know how to format the memos yet so that the hyperlinks work.. I assuyme there's a way to do it...

John_C

glamberson: you want to put links in memos?

John_C

darrellm: it would be hard for a Theme to break the chart list placement (the ones in the person entries, that is)

glamberson

john:yes

DarrellM

John_C: so where is the property? I have looked, honest!

John_C

glamberson: links to other people, or ?

glamberson

john:To be specific, I want to put links in my place memos so that they work in SS and are not just text..

KathrynBassett

glamberson - I think I can answer you

John_C

darrell: pages > lists > person entry chart list

glamberson

johnc:I would like to use hyperlinks to, for example, USGENWEB websites for certain US Counties

John_C

glamberson: OH.

DarrellM

John_C: Oh, THERE. Thanks ... grumble grumble mutter mutter

glamberson

I think this will be a very good way for me to add my suggested links for specific localities

John_C

glamberson: You would have to put HTML in the Place Comment (via TMG's MPL) or alternatively attach a text exhibit to the place that includes a link

KathrynBassett

glamberson - do you want something like this? http://bassett.net/secondsite/kathryn-p/p2.shtml#i96

glamberson

kathrynb:yes, exactly.. A hyperlink to appropriate sites , germane to the location

DarrellM

Everyone: BTW, I am very close to having a full search page.

KathrynBassett

scroll down to immigration tag and see that I have links to some images

John_C

DarrellM: Cheer up. I think I counted more than 400 options if you count stylesheet properties!

KathrynBassett

ok, brb with the code I have as a text macro in TMG

DarrellM

Thanks to KSearch and the instructions on 2ndSt-L from Glen Crofford.

John_C

glamberson: for links to other pages about a place, I'd put the link in the Place Comment

John_C

Kathryn: Did v1.8.6 fix the shtml prob?

KathrynBassett

I have the next line as a text macro

KathrynBassett

[HTML:]<A HREF="" target="_new">(scanned image)</a>[:HTML]

glamberson

kathrynb:I like what you've done with the links there, Kathryn..

glamberson

Kathryn:I knew there was some simple way to do it.. Thanks heaps

KathrynBassett

then, I put the url in between the two "" before the word target, and the part that says (scanned image) I replace with whatever the text is that I want to describe

John_C

Does anyone have any questions about other SS v1.8 features (Timeline charts, custom pages, etc.)

glamberson

Johnc:I'm sorry. I remain the King of Imprecise Terminology.. I meant to say that I would like to place links to other websites germane to my locations by placing the links in my place comments fields

KathrynBassett

JohnC - yes. I sent something to the SS list but haven't gotten any messages back. I've got a feeling I got unsubbed, as I got unsubbed from a googlegroup list too.

glamberson

(continued) within TMG 6

John_C

Kathryn: I think SS-L and TMG-L are down due to RootsWeb issues

DarrellM

Kathryn: There is an undefined server(s) problem at RootsWeb.

KathrynBassett

ah, that explains it

KathrynBassett

thanks, saved me from going to find my url for the rootsweb issues

John_C

glamberson: Kathryn's coding will work in the Place Comment. Turn on the Place Index, and the Place Information Page in SS, and you should see the links.

glamberson

Johnc: I would love to hear how other people are using these features. I have not yet even considered them.. The place comments and Index are huge to me alone.

DarrellM

All: http://helpdesk.rootsweb.com should be bookmarked by all RW list users.

John_C

glamberson: Me, too!

glamberson

Johnc and Kathryn: WONDERFUL! Thank you.

John_C

glamberson: once you experiment a bit, ask more questions on SecondSite-L (once it's back up)

DarrellM

John_C: I would love to try the custom pages feature.

John_C

DarrellM: What's stopping you, besides time? <g>

DarrellM

John_C: However, I get stuck at integrating them into my Theme. Someday.

marklang

come to think of it, I think there was trouble before today. Itried unsubbing from TMG-D about 5 times before I had to get in touch with admin

marklang

I think there were issues before now

glamberson

Johnc:One thing I would like is to have the titles of the index pages append to the title of my site as name pages do.

John_C

DarrellM: Should be *easy*. The template is simple. You only have to decide how to add links for them, and you can use User Links for that.

glamberson

Johnc:For example, my name page 3 title is "Greg Lamberson's Genealogy Website Name Page 3"

DarrellM

John_C: There! I like the chart links at the bottom MUCH better.

KathrynBassett

John, I'll paste here my message that hasn't yet been delivered, because it also asks a question.

KathrynBassett

As a result of an answer during the chat (using sentences with grid format), I've given it a try. I don't think I'm going to have to use the custom language since it looks like it mostly does what I want. The sentences I was worried about aren't proving to be a problem. However - what's with this?http://bassett.net/secondsite/kathryn-p/p2.shtml#i52 Note the 30 May 1816 deed. Why does it says [Role:Grantor] sold land to [Role:Grantee] Instead of the peoples names? There is no grantee linked up, but that shouldn't make a difference. The land is from his father's estate http://bassett.net/secondsite/kathryn-p/p3.shtml#i104 and you'll see the problem there too where it says:As part of the estate of [Role:EstateOf], [Role:Grantor] sold land to [Role:Grantee] on 30 May 1816 at Frederick Co., Virginia,: James, Sarah, Stephen and Thomas Kile sell lands on the drains ... Etc.So, why don't these things show the names instead of the roles?Oh, maybe I should include my sentences too, just in case.EstateOf: As part of the estate of [Role:EstateOf], [Role:Grantor] sold land <to [Role:Grantee]> <[D]> <[L]:> <[M]>Grantor: [Role:Grantor] sold land <to [Role:Grantee]> <[D]> <[L]:> <[M]>Grantee: [Role:Grantee] bought land <from [Role:Grantor]><[D]> <[L]:> <[M]>

John_C

glamberson: Which index pages?

DarrellM

John_C: OK, after I get the Search finished.

glamberson

johnc:whereas my place index page 6 is merely called "Place Index 6"

John_C

Kathryn: Literally, [Role:Grantor]? Should be [R:Grantor]

KathrynBassett

oh, hmm, well, I guess I'll go change them and redo and see what happens

John_C

glamberson: Oh, Place Index pages. I'll look into it.

glamberson

TYVM

DarrellM

John_C: What do you think would happen if I pasted the entire "body" of a page, including scripts, into a custom page's contents?

John_C

DarrellM: Custom pages want *content* of the body tag. Some tags that belong in the head would work, but others might not.

John_C

DarrellM: Perhaps I'll add a way to affect the HEAD section

John_C

Is anyone here NOT subscribed to the Second Site Newsletter? It's worth subscribing if you want to stay up to date on SS. I won't fill up your mailbox; messages are usually sent only when there is a new release of SS. See http://www.johncardinal.com/ss/newsletters.htm

DarrellM

John_C: The KSearch free search feature uses frames and affects the HEAD section.

John_C

DarrellM: Frames would be a bear.

John_C

DarrellM: Use a simpler search facility. A search box shouldn't drive the design of the site.

marklang

Darrell, try and stear clear of using frames IMHO

DarrellM

John_C: It's simple enough; all the code fits on one screen with lots of white space. It's integrating it into a Theme that's the bear.

John_C

DarrellM: If it uses frames, it isn't simple.

DarrellM

John_C: OK, I'm all ears. Any simple, free, search code out there?

John_C

DarrellM: I am sure there are, I just haven't looked. I am planning on it.

KathrynBassett

Yeah, that worked. I'm uploading the new pages now.

John_C

KathrynB: Glad to hear that.

DarrellM

John_C: Is that a sneak preview of a new feature?

marklang

Darrell, server side or client side?

DarrellM

Mark: Client side. That's a key point for me.

John_C

DarrellM: If I find something I like, I will try to add it as a feature of SS. As usual, no promises.

John_C

Mark: If I add something to SS, it will be client-side.

DarrellM

John_C: Understood. It is not my biggest priority.

marklang

Darrell, the trouble with client side is keeping the dictionary uptodate!

glamberson

client side,, that sounds .. problematic..

John_C

marklang: it will be a little easier if SS makes the dictionary when it makes the site.

DarrellM

Mark: Dictionary?

John_C

glamberson: if it isn't client-side, it will have server-side dependencies (none now) and won't work on SS CDs.

marklang

Darrell, when you build a site, a dictionary holds all key words so the search facility can give the page links

DarrellM

All: KSearch rebuilds the entire search as a whole.

glamberson

I was thinking more along the lines of Googles custom search by site offerings...

KathrynBassett

what about the google search? can that be incorporated somehow?

John_C

KathrynB: Yes, it can. I forget how, but I think instructions are on Google somewhere.

DarrellM

Kathryn: I want complete control of the scope of the search.

glamberson

johnc: No i wouldn't advocate that, either..

Kevin_Sholder

I have Google on my pages, but do not like the results so far and have not dug into it deeper to see what the problem might be.

John_C

Kevin: What don't you like?

DarrellM

I'm against incorporating Google within 2ndSt. Just bias.

Kevin_Sholder

It does not find words on my site.

glamberson

when it comes to searching, there's no pleasing everyone.. Personally, I don't use any on my site.. Indexing only.

Kevin_Sholder

And I'm not sure why.

marklang

I did a search engine for a Uni course about 5 years back, just can't remember the name now, i'd have to look it up and get back to you

DarrellM

glamberson: The indexes are very good, but a search is somewhat different.

glamberson

th best search I've seen it the one many KYGENWEB websites use on their sites.. can't think of the name tho

John_C

Anyone having any trouble with SS?

DarrellM

I think I'm going to proceed with KSearch. If nothing else, I'll be the guinea pig.

marklang

JohnC - Ah that's it - SWISH

DarrellM

Mark: Can you give a link to an example?

marklang

I'll see if I can find one

DarrellM

John_C: Only the 400 properties

glamberson

oh, the name of the search I like is pico search :

glamberson

picosearch.com

Kevin_Sholder

John: Just ran a search on my pages and only one hit came back for my grandfather, and there should be a least one or two sources, as well as his individual page.

marklang

Darrell - http://swish-e.org/

John_C

Kevin: are you sure the words appear close enough on the missed pages?

Kevin_Sholder

What do you mean by close enough?

John_C

if you search for "john smith", the words "john" and "smith" have to be close to each other or Google gives it a low score.

John_C

In the SS name index, for example, the surname isn't always close to the givenname

Kevin_Sholder

OK, I'll try his first and middle name and see what that returns.

John_C

Also, don't search for a quoted string

glamberson

I guess I'm of the Neanderthal Camp, believing if people can't use an index, they're hopeless anyway.

marklang

I'm pretty sure even swish could accommodate for word proximity

John_C

glamberson: I think the indexes handle a lot of case, but a site search is handy

DarrellM

glamberson: There are lots of things (e.g. memo text) that 2ndSt doesn't index.

glamberson

certainly true

glamberson

MY needs aren't that complex yet, or at least I don't think they are

glamberson

very true

John_C

marklang: the search engines can handle it, but not if the user specifies an exact phrase

marklang

and beside, nothing beats a good trawl thru a site manually!

Kevin_Sholder

John: I tried "Frederick Ulmer" and it returned "0" or "zero" results.

glamberson

I say trawling is half the fun!

wayneb

Glamberson: You're not alone. I'm telling my CD users to use the index and if the want a search to use a desktp search such as Copernic

John_C

We haven't heard from everyone... I want to make sure they aren't waiting for a quiet moment. There may not be one!

barbarag

I'm just lurking

John_C

barbarag: ... and you were here earlier so you're all chatted out?

Carol_Lea

I came to see what other people were doing

TerryR

Likewise

DMB

I'm learning a lot by listening to you

DarrellM

We seem to be monopolizing the chat with search issues.

Kevin_Sholder

glamberson: I count on search engines to bring people to my site.

John_C

I've got another question for everyone...

Did everyone notice the new Save As command? You can use it to make a copy of the curent SDF file and folders if you want to make a site that is very similar to another one. It was a little lost among the place index, timeline charts, etc., in v1.8

marklang

Ah, monopolising, lets all go on the Apprentice - the SS Edition <g>

DarrellM

John_C: I use "Save As" constantly. It is a godsend.

TerryR

I've not used it yet but have wanted it in the past.

wayneb

Johnc: seen it and used it. thanks

glamberson

Yes, for people making multiple sites, I would think it invaluable

John_C

DarrellM: But Darrell, you only use it because you are trying to break it! <g>

RobynD

lol

glamberson

lol

DarrellM

John_C: Mai non, mon ami! Although I might be *accused* of that.

wayneb

johnc: isn't that what you pay us for? <g>

marklang

Darrell, looks like someone else is telling tales out of school

DarrellM

John_C: But I find it practically useful, all the time.

John_C

wayneb: the check's in the mail.

Kevin_Sholder

Don't we pay john?? LOL

marklang

who's getting paid!

glamberson

lol

DarrellM

BUSTED!

John_C

THe beta testers get paid, if you consider a slap on the back as "pay" <g>

marklang

again?

DarrellM

Translation: "Busted", American slang, "caught in the act".

marklang

you'll have to remove the dagger first

John_C

I am also interested in timeline chart examples... anyone got a good one?

DarrellM

John_C: I think I am adequately compensated....

marklang

you and me both

Kevin_Sholder

I'd love to see a timeline chart and make some of my own, they sound cool.

John_C

I've got a rudimentary example: http://www.johncardinal.com/ss/examples/timeline/index.htm

glamberson

Timelines scare me.. I stay away from them.. Didn't like them in TMG4, and I fall into Archie Bunker mode at the thought of them, sorry

DarrellM

Kevin: Best thing is to try one. Start simple.

John_C

glamberson: check out the chart just for the heck of it.

rj45

they scare you??

DarrellM

glamberson: A 2ndSt timeline and a TMG timeline are different beasts.

glamberson

Well, I'm easily frightened..

John_C

I am very interested to see one that graphically shows why someone reached a particular conclusion when faced with a genalogical puzzle.

Kevin_Sholder

Yes, with all my time being spent on exhibits right now...it will be at some point.

DarrellM

Closely related; same genus, different species.

glamberson

John: That really is very interesting.. A new way to present data. I will have to consider it.

barbarag

so much to do -- not enouth hours in the day

glamberson

You're piling on the new stuff too fast for my feeble brain to keep up!

John_C

barbarag: I think we need to lobby the programmer for more hours in a day. just a few more is all I ask!

glamberson

Darrell:You expose my ignorance. The mere separation is a relief to me, and I was totally unuawre that they were not the same in any way.

marklang

glamberson - good stirs the sawdust as they say

John_C

My questions aren't stirring the pot that much... but I'll keep at it.

marklang

barbara - no, then John will find time to do more <G>

John_C

Who's going on the cruise?

DarrellM

John_C: Would love to cruise, but not this year.

ezzie

I am

wayneb

John_C - I am

John_C

I am

marklang

Too expensive for me, especially from Australia

glamberson

The Love Boat Cruise?

marklang

Duh, you're a guest speaker

John_C

Mark: Sorry to hear that. I am pining to go to Australia...

DarrellM

Now, if the cruise were to the Great Barrier Reef ...

glamberson

.. ok maybe not

barbarag

I'll be there

DMB

Depends on fire season. A busy fire season equals overtime, and the money for such fun.

marklang

Darrell, I'd be there in a shot, lovely place to go snorkling

marklang

all the pretty fishies

DarrellM

DMB: I'm not sure which way to go on fire season. Where?

marklang

some with big teeth

KathrynBassett

sounds great to me but I had just signed up for an expensive Dreamweaver conference and can't afford two expensive things in the same year

barbarag

Maybe wew can talk Bob into an Great Barrier Reef dive trip and TMG study trip

John_C

They'd have to move the reef closer to the U.S.

rj45

that's for 2006

DarrellM

barbarag: Give me a year's heads up, and I'll show up!

barbarag

and the year after that?

marklang

Yeah bob was out here a year a bit ago. Seen him when he came to adelaide, spent the day together

DMB

DarrellM: Pacific Northwest, mostly. Actually, I'd go just about anywhere they send me.

John_C

We're 10 minutes from the official close of the chat. If there are any TMG Utility questions, or questions about TMG Utility and SS combined, have at it.

DarrellM

John_C: Are there any lingering issues with image maps?

marklang

Are these only meant to go an hour?

DarrellM

I'm not seeing any problems that I know of.

KathrynBassett

John, after we are officially done, I'd like to ask you something that has nothing to do with genealogy.

John_C

DarrellM: There is an issue related to moving the Exhibit Decsription into the Caption field; it can break the image map. If the image map is properly constructed, there should be no problem.

DarrellM

John_C: That's what prompted the question.

John_C

mark: yes, one hour is the official time. I'll stay a little longer, maybe even a lot longer if my eyes remain open

DarrellM

I'll be here for a while to ... chat ...

John_C

DarrellM: TMG Utility and SS will look in the description field first for the map, then in the caption

marklang

ah yes, the pumpkin thing again, forgot

John_C

kathryn: no prob

DMB

John_C: to heck with the eyes - it's the brain that needs to keep functioning!

marklang

one good strong cup of tea does the trick

glamberson

I'll ask again: How are you others using the Place Index?

DarrellM

DMB: You've got me by two hours, John by three. Caffeine!!

DarrellM

glamberson: I index town/city "and up".

John_C

\DarrellM: on the image map thing--too much to type in a chat. we can discuss it on TMG-L if you want.

barbarag

Tea? I thought we were all sipping on a fine wine

DarrellM

John_C: If there aren't any image map "gotchas" I'm fine.

John_C

DarrellM: There may be one.

wayneb

glamberson: I'm attaching photos of grave yards along with directions and history if I know it. Also attaching photos of some old residences

DarrellM

glamberson: I have Place Info for "many" towns.

KathrynBassett

I've been working on another website, and am having a problem that I'm sure is CSS related, but I'm baffled by what is wrong. I've made a site that explains it all (for another list), but most of the people who help there are done for the weekend. http://ourwebsite.org/storage/dcs/needhelp.htm

John_C

people should feel free to post URLs of their place indexes or any other pages people might want to see

DarrellM

John_C: I have been threatening to update my site for a week.

marklang

yes we know, all talk

DarrellM

John_C: I've been side-tracked by yet another conflicting source about 3gr-grandpa.

glamberson

Wayne: Nice. Since I focus my research on some key Counties, I plan to offer some basic historical information as well as location within the state, perhaps a map, and links to helpful research sites on the web in my place comments for some counties.

DarrellM

John_C: With any luck, when this chart is done I'll be uploading.

John_C

kathryn: I took a quick look. have you got an example of the page online somewhere that shows the exact problem?

glamberson

darrell:What kind of place information do you tend to include??

glamberson

OH also I include some information on how the location is important within the body of my reasearch, if applicable.

John_C

glamberson: one idea to consider is an exhibit image map for a place exhibit that is a map; clicking on a part of the map to open a page about that city/town/plot, whatever

DarrellM

glamberson: Some history, and a state map with the town highlighted. It's a work in progress, for sure.

KathrynBassett

wayneb - I have a client who has a goal of photographing all the tombstones available for her ancestors. Here's an example page of what I've done for her (not TMG or SS) http://babcockancestry.com/BuryPagesGNG/BurialsNH.shtml

KathrynBassett

John, the links are on the page

glamberson

Johnc::do you know ofany exampes ofsuch an exhibit image map?

John_C

glamberson: I know DIck Cleaveland uses exhibit image maps, and I think Darrell does, too. (He can speak for himself) I don't know of anyone using image maps for place exhibits... yet.

wayneb

ohn_c - I haven't yet but the idea intrigues me. Oh boy still jmore to do

DarrellM

I don't have any image maps for places; there is no feature like "static pages" for places.

John_C

Well, it's 12:00 here. Thanks to everyone for coming! I will stick around, but I didn't want to miss the chance to say thanks before some of you head off elsewhere.

John_C

wayneb: you're telling me...

KathrynBassett

John, more specifcally, the paragraph starting "Here are the sample pages" has the links to the actual pages.

glamberson

After abruptly dropping my research and webwite work for almost 3 months, I'll need sometime to see ow to se all of these new features best.

RobynD

Thanks for your time John C

rj45

thanks, John

ezzie

Thanks, John.

John_C

kathryn: OK, I see the problem now. I'll look at it tomorrow.

KathrynBassett

thanks

TerryR

Thans, John.

barbarag

Thanks, John and all those who joined the chat.

John_C

You're welcome, everyone.

KathrynBassett

do you by any chance have Dreamweaver?

ChuckW

Goodnight, all. Thanks, John.

John_C

kathryn: nope.

DarrellM

Thanks to all. I'm sticking around for a bit.

marklang

Kathryn - I do

BillR

any way to get a copy of the chat?

John_C

BillR: I will post a transcript on my site tomorrow. Today's earlier chat is there already.

KathrynBassett

Well, you should still be able to download the templates - they have .dwt extention, but you can change to .htm

John_C

See: http://www.johncardinal.com/ss/chats

John_C

Kathryn: I will try to find the HTML or CSS problem. You'll have to work back from there.

DMB

I've enjoyed listening to all of you. Thanks for the pointers and explanations. Especially you, John.

BillR

Thanks.

wayneb

Thanks John and good night y'all

KathrynBassett

I'm just thinking about the possiblity that if it's html vs css, then seeing the code in the template wrapper might be significant. So if you can't find anyplace else, try there.

John_C

barbarag

Good night

glamberson

Thank you John, and everyone! Cya next time..

John_C

Looks like things are slowing down... I'll see you all on SecondSite-L and TMG-L, and of course, in the Caribbean in November!

KathrynBassett

Bye all

DarrellM

I think even Elvis is heading to the door....

marklang

well i've still got a good 7 hours up my sleeve

RobynD

bye all

marklang

night to everyone else, may be that article needs completion<g>

marklang

bye Robyn